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Why does the Govt refuse to recognize E-Cigs as a Smoking Cessation Device?

SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

From: Rose Colombo
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:45 PM
To: NCI Smokefree.gov Team
Subject: You are missing something

To who it may concern-

I have now been one month cigarette free with the aid of an e-cigarette. Nothing else has worked and I have tried them all from hypnosis to gum to patch to acupuncture.

Since the other products you list as "aids" mostly are some sort of nicotine replacement, why wouldn't you list this as an available option?

It seems to me there is some discrimination against the use of e-cigs...some states have banned their use or purchase on many levels, and even the FDA has classified them as "tobacco", which they are not.

So, what gives? Has anyone there checked to see how many people are using them (growing numbers evidenced by the number of new bans against them) and what their success rates are?


Rose Colombo



  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member
    edited April 2012

    RE: You are missing something‏

    To 'Rose Colombo'
    From:NCI Smokefree.gov Team (NCISmokeFreeTeam@mail.nih.gov)
    Sent:Thu 3/22/12 10:17 AM
    To: 'Rose Colombo'

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    Hi Rose,

    Congratulations on your decision to quit smoking!! Everyone here at Smokefree.gov understands that quitting smoking is hard work, so you deserve praise for stepping up to the challenge!

    You raise some good questions about electronic smoking products (also known as e-cigarettes). We are aware that some smokers use e-cigarettes as a smoking alternative or smoking cessation aid. Since e-cigarettes do not produce the smoke that is associated with conventional cigarettes, many consumers believe that e-cigarettes are safer than smoking tobacco. But the truth is that we currently have no way of knowing whether these products are safe or effective. E-cigarettes may contain ingredients that are known to be toxic to humans. The quality of these chemicals and their safety for inhalation are unknown. The quality of their manufacturing is also unknown. Until the safety, efficacy, and quality of electronic smoking products has been scientifically demonstrated, we cannot endorse them as a quit smoking method. For more information, see: http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm172906.htm


  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    Because the potential risks of using e-cigarettes remain unclear, it is not advisable to use them as a quitting aid. There a number of FDA approved medications that have been shown to assist smokers in their quit attempts. The safety and efficacy of these products have been demonstrated in clinical studies, and they can double or even triple your chances of success. You mentioned that you have used some of these medications in the past without success. Sometimes it takes a little bit of trial and error to find the combination that works best for you. If you are interested in learning more about proven quit smoking methods, including FDA approved medications, try using our What Works To Quit tool.


    Please let us know if you have any additional questions.


    Smokefree.gov Team

    Tobacco Control Research Branch

    Behavioral Research Program

    Division of Cancer Control and Population Sciences

    National Cancer Institute

    For assistance in quitting smoking, visit http://smokefree.gov or call 1-877-44U-QUIT (1-877-448-7848)

  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
  • MuldemarMuldemar Posts: 500Member
    In other words..Until we find a way to tax the hell out of them and make a ton of $$$..They are not filling our pockets..Like other methods are..Gotta love government..JMO
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    SO- The bottom line is the Gov't feels there is not sufficient research to show that e-cigs rate as a smoking cessation...

    But somewhere there was sufficient research to categorize e-cigs as a tobacco product by the FDA?

    I don't get it.

    I can't seem to really find any one organization that REALLY is approaching this from a research aspect.

    What can really be done politically to stop the tide of relegating e-cigs to the same stigma that has been unfairly attached to the smokers of the world?

    How many years did the Govt provide protection for the tobacco companies as they made it next to impossible for us to quit the addiction by the additives formulations they were able to do the their product?

    Tobacco had been a huge source of income for hundreds of years here in the United States. Heck, it was really our #1 cash crop for over a century!

    What can the average vaper do to prevent the e-cigs from being lumped in with the analogs?

  • LeapingFrogsLeapingFrogs Posts: 393Member
    Nevermind that the side effect of drugs like Chantix, Zyban, and Wellbutrin (as stated in the warnings which come with the product) is DEATH. Awesome. Show me one person that's died from standard PV usage. Where are the class action suits against PV and juice suppliers from people who have been harmed by them? Oh there aren't any? Huh. Curiouser and  curiouser.
  • marni_V2cigsmarni_V2cigs Posts: 1,153Member
    Over 3 million e-cig users and no evidence of their safety? Standard FDA stance. They continue to say they don't know what is in them...yet we publish the ingredients online and test every batch of every flavor of every strength. 
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @marni_V2cigs...is there a concerted, organized effort by any manufacturers to spend the research dollars to be able to lobby the govt to change their stance on e-cigs?

    Are there any organized member organizations of ex-smoking vapers who are actively pursuing opportunities to prevent any further unfair regulations regarding e-cigs?

    Lord knows, most of these things (research, lobbying, etc) takes tons of cash...does V2 have any plans to work with their enthusiasts to make one voice big enough to be heard?

    Can we identify anyone in power who is ultimately making these decisions that can be targeted for re-education?

    While I am sure not all 3 million users could get on the same page to make political changes regarding the regulations being applied to e-cig use...has there been any effort by anyone to see how many e-cig users would be willing to support a movement to change the FDA's view on e-cigs?

  • mrtmrt Posts: 5,607Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2012
    SeawindsRosemarni_V2cigs  do not start a petition, the FDA threw out the signatures (over 1,000,000) on petitons to label GMO foods as GMO foods and said that they only received only 394 comments to the labeling request.  See http://naturalsociety.com/fda-deletes-1-million-signatures-for-gmo-labeling-campaign/ so anything done should be pursued on an individual basis.  JMHO
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @mrt - I read you loud and clear...it is almost inpossible to take on a huge organization like the FDA.

    In my opinion and experience as an activist and occasional rabble rouser, I have had much more success in affecting change when I have been able to identify the individuals or committees who are making the decisions I disagree with.

    A stable, organized base of people all working in the same direction CAN really make the difference...especially in an election year. And the media can REALLY make a difference, if something can be done that they see as "newsworthy".

    I doubt something could be done during this run, but nothing happens overnight. If we can start a movement now, just think where we could be in 4 years...

    Look at the recent "pink slime" controversy.

  • BassManStanBassManStan Posts: 214Member ✭✭✭
    I just posted a link to this thread on my Facebook page. I know it's not much but maybe a start.
  • janeajanea Posts: 970Member
    edited April 2012
    Frankly, I'm happy to fly under the radar at this point because it is only a matter of time until nicotine is taxed to death, too.

    But I salute the OP for actually getting out there to work for acceptance and knowledge.

    (But you might want to edit out your email addresses and all email headers before you get spammed to death..)
  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    edited April 2012
    @SeawindsRose A little background. In late 2010, the FDA put forth their intention to regulate e-cigs as a "drug delivery device", and in so doing, attempted to block shipments of all e cig supplies from entering the U.S., until such time as these "drug delivery devices", and associated components could be tested for safety. One company, NJoy, brought suit, and won, in Federal Court, in early 2011. In so doing, it was determined that e-cigs would be regulated as tobacco products, rather than the "drug delivery devices", as the FDA had hoped. At the time, this was considered a victory for e-cigs, because if the FDA had won the suit, probably all e-cig products would have been banned until such time as testing was completed. For this reason, e-cig companies cannot advertise the products as smoking cessation devices. The FDA wasn't happy with the decision then, and they aren't happy now. The war isn't over yet. But in the meantime, companies need to be careful in presenting the products as "smoking alternative products" rather than "smoking cessation products".
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member
    OH MY- THANKS for the advice...
  • LeapingFrogsLeapingFrogs Posts: 393Member
    We've actually been doing a little test at work. I work in a group of four, three of us are smokers. We're all three trying to quit tobacco. One gal decided to go with Chantix, I went with V2 obviously, and the bossman has gone with a combination of cold turkey, a patch and a gum? LOL. Anyway, we all started the same day.

    Chantix girl is back up to a pack a day after one week. After three days on Chantix she was having violent episodes of vomiting, no reduction in the cravings for nicotine, and a really really nasty bad attitude. The boss isn't doing so great either... he's wearing patches, chewing some gum, smoking a half pack a day (down from a full pack). I'm pretty sure he's overdosing himself on nicotine about this point. He's totally jittery and sleep deprived and feels terrible, I give him another two days before he's back up to a pack+ a day. (he's already said he's going to go with a V2 next week)

    Me, of course I went with the V2, I'm vaping less than I smoked (2 packs a day at least), I have a fabulous attitude, I'm downright chipper, I can breathe, for some reason my ultra dry skin is clearing up, I'm sleeping like a rock, I have zero urge for nasty burned tobacco. The first puff I took off my V2 signified the last drag off a cigarette. Easy peasy. I've even stepped down in the nicotine from 18 to 12 and 6 as needed.

    You can't convince me that gums, drugs, patches are more effective and less dangerous than a little e-liquid and a battery.
  • JmanJman Posts: 3,050Member
    Although I've heard some of it before, good summary @Rule62. Glad you shared that. 
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @Rule62... Thanks for the insight. Yes, it is normal for people who feel they are "powerful" to hold a grudge for the sake of their egos. Often their decisions have little to do with the actual subject, it has more to do with their personal feelings on the matter.

    I notice that the people making these decisions admit there is no "research" to prove e-cigs are a safe alternative, but they also have no "research" showing they are harmful either.

    SO- if Njoy had the information to prevent the ban on importation...wouldn't it be effective if the various manufacturers could join forces like the tobacco companies have done to affect changes currently in legislation?

  • marni_V2cigsmarni_V2cigs Posts: 1,153Member
    edited April 2012
    FYI, if e-cigs were determined to be a smoking cessation product/drug delivery device, they would have to go through a 5+ year process of clinical trials and all sales of the product would end until approved. 

    This would also cost e-cig manufacturers millions/billions of dollars and put everyone out of business. Most likely, only one manufacturer or group of manufacturers may be able to go through the process-which means only ONE supplier for all e-cigs (most likely a pharmaceutical company) and very little product choices. 

    It would be a much different e-cig world, one I don't think many would like. 

    @seawindsrose to answer your question, yes, there is a group of manufacturers banning together and we are part of that group. However, we are not trying to have e-cigs classified as a drug delivery device. 

  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @Marni_V2 - WOW! What a slippery slope this is! If things were shut down for 5 years of clinicals...well I simply can't imagine losing the opportunity and choice to vape for so long!!! YIKES!

    I was pretty sure the manufacturers had gotten together on some level as an industry to promote and protect their investment AND their customers.

    Is there anyplace where your manufacturers group provides the opportunity for their customers and supporters to get involved on some level?



  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    I hope the day never comes where e-cigs, liquids, etc. are taxed as tobacco products. But the reality is that e-cigs probably will be, eventually; especially considering the fact that we are dealing with a Government that is looking for creative ways to increase revenues.. But even with that, we are better off than we would be if the FDA had their way, and the products were regulated as drug delivery devices, and weren't available at all.
  • marni_V2cigsmarni_V2cigs Posts: 1,153Member
    edited April 2012
    @seawindsrose There will be...something we are working on launching this year. 
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    That's great news, Marni! Has V2 considered sending President Obama an Ultimate Kit? I hear he is a "closet smoker"...

  • ginazginaz Posts: 663V2 Veteran
    @SeawindsRose that letter you posted is the same exact one I got from the FDA. Praising the desire to quit smoking yet criticism of the Ecig industry and how their products were made, what kind of "chemicals" could possibly be in them.
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member
    edited April 2012

    I am looking forward to the opportunity of working with the Industry leaders to preserve the rights that we, as vapers are entitled to.

    The Govt had a united front...surely with the right leadership within the industry we can make a difference and have our united voice heard.

  • DaddyCatDaddyCat Posts: 6,786Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2012
  • crazymaccrazymac Posts: 411Member
      to help with this fight would be to compiled a data of all us e-cig user . for some steps it can be done for all of us while others steps needs to be a controlled group. my father was in a test group before, here is some stuff which is needed .
    1. at least 1 week study of bloodpressure , and pains and medication  and doctor check ups
    2. list of any illness in family or have i.e cancer, heartprobs
    3. during testing they ask for again bp pain and weekly doctor checkups
    4. some of the test ppl get dummy test drug for us guess would be just wator vapour
    5. most important for us is since it would be a test only be able to use only test item meaning no juices from diffent places to be classify as a test subject it would be carts only since juicing is not controlled by admin 
    6. amount would be controlled to a certain level ,but some groups get more others less
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member
    edited April 2012

    @crazymac- all very valid and valuable points for data collection. I hope the Industry Leaders can compile some sort of questionaire that can be provided to interested vapers who want to track their progress (and success) while using the e-cig for analog cessation...

    Are there people out there who just start vaping for the fun of it? Are there smokers out there who continue to smoke analogs at their normal rate once they begin vaping?

    God help the people who would be assigned to the "placebo" control group...and you know there would have to be one for comparison.

    Does anyone think there would be a lack of volunteers for a study? Certainly it would take a real commitment to make all the doctors appts, and the data keeping would have to be processed into a reliable format...

    I would certainly volunteer...I think it would be incredibly interesting.

  • crazymaccrazymac Posts: 411Member
    the first problem all of us would have is no checkup b4 we started i know when i smoke i believe my bp was like 140/100 now it is down to 120/80 about . wish i could of check right b4 i started vaping to see 
  • crazymaccrazymac Posts: 411Member
    SeawindsRose  picked you as a placebo control group......wait i won't wish that on any of us ......ok maybe a few
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @DaddyCat- Yes, I have checked out the casaa website...it seems more like they are reporting what small individual groups are doing currently.

    I like their "calls to action" ie: keeping people abreast of current events and asking people in various areas to respond to upcoming legislation.

    But to me it seems different than actually being pro-active to the point that they themselves "sponsor" an organized event.

    Are there any recognizable "faces" or "spokes-people" for the e-cig industry?


  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @crazymac- ;  OH NOOOOO MR. BILL! Not the placebo group...."gulp"...

  • EarthpigEarthpig Posts: 4,754V2 Veteran
    The feedback is the company FDA line. They just reworded it and spent more time to say the same thing.
    Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerine , Nicotine, Food Flavorings? """They don't know what's in them?"""
    How LAME ?
    It's the same ingredients approved by FDA, yet they won't admit it, and look for the sinister instead.

    But expected.
    It's the same thing we've been hearing now for 5 years, and it seems like nobody takes the time to check them out except those who vape, and a slew of honest doctors (unlike those paid off whores).

  • Dragon36Dragon36 Posts: 290Member

    @Marni_V2cigs and @ All of you guys... Is there a film making guy here in the forum?? we could make a documentary and make it a GOOD one so it get's nominated for some AWARDS (doesnt matter if they are foreign awards) . This possibility occured to me after watching a documentary about FAST FOOD (the director, ate Mcdonalds for 60 days in a row..he was really sick...) After the release of that documentary MCdonald's felt the pressure of Public Opinion and Changed several things: one of them having "healthy" options in their Menu. I think This war can be only won by Public Opinion and not by petitions.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

  • crazymaccrazymac Posts: 411Member
    we just need a millionaire to buy a small city v2s and film it call it smoke free city 
  • puppynursepuppynurse Posts: 1,514V2 Veteran
    The FDA is bought and paid for their opinions are based on who pays the most, being that pharmaceutical companies would lose big money if people stopped using the "tried methods of quitting" The electronic cigarette is more than likely never to be endorsed.  Honestly it really irritates me that this is the case. FDA stands for Freaking Dumb Ass Association.
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    That's a great idea, @Dragon36! It's amazing how a documentary can be a catalyst for so many people! Public Opinion is a very powerful tool for change...getting people involved is the challenge!

    Getting the word out is the first step...and so much more effective when there is a loyal and knowledgeable base of people behind the words.


  • Dragon36Dragon36 Posts: 290Member

    No.. Actually this documentary was with a very very very SMALL Budget. The only "actor" was the director...so...

    I'm Thinking that if someone does documentaries it might we a good idea for his/her job to take this TOPIC. ALso if someone has a Kid that is studying Film Making, They might do it as a project and maybe in the way change history, recognition, awards and if lucky some $$$

  • marni_V2cigsmarni_V2cigs Posts: 1,153Member
    @dragon36 I'm working on developing a documentary already with a very well known photojournalist....stay tuned!
  • Dragon36Dragon36 Posts: 290Member

    @SeawinsRose I couldnt agree more!! @marni_V2cigs ; ThaT's GREAT!! I will stay tuned and I think that I speak for everyone that we will show it everywhere to every people we know and try to make it viral so people will learn the truth about e-cigs... 

  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    You ROCK, Marni! That is very good news!

    V2 is very lucky to have such a responsive, enthusiastic and capable person working in their PR and Marketing.

    Please keep us updated on this project...and let us know when/how we can help!

  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycern are both USP approved products. Both are sometimes used in medications, nebulizers, air handling systems, etc. Flavorings are extracts, taken from actual food, and sometimes tobacco, and these extracts are then suspended in either propylene glycol, distilled water, or alcohol. These compounds are then combined into liquids, which are used in e-cigs.
    Yet the FDA doesn't know what's in them.
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    Well, they obviously are not all that interested...again...there is a money trail somewhere that is hard to follow- as always...MONEY TALKS!

  • AbsintheurAbsintheur Posts: 6,429V2 Veteran ✭✭
    edited April 2012
    I have said it before and I will say it again...it is all about the
    money. The government receives huge amounts of monies in the form of
    taxes from the sale of analog cigarettes, they receive nothing from the
    sale of e-cigs and juice. Guess which they are going to support?

    1. The government loses money every time someone switches from analogs to e-cigs..
    2. The government cares more about money than the people it represents.
    3. The government has a long history of lying to the people it is supposed to protect.
    4. The government will do anything to protect it's cash cows.

    If the FDA was allowed to tax e-cigs and juice they would be championing
    the e-cig like it was the next coming of Christ...until they can tax it
    they will continue to lie and do all they can to make them illegal.
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    @Absintheur...well, I may be old but I am still pretty scrappy...I'd be willing to put on my boots and put up a pretty good fight to make a difference.

    It's been a while since I took on a political challenge, but my days of handcuffing myself to the front door of City Hall are not necessarily behind me. I have never found any shame in championing a cause I feel strongly about.

    Hopefully when the time for action comes there will be enough of us to make a difference.

    I do believe the "lead" on this fight needs to be CASAA or a like group of industry leaders (and if V2 is the leading e-cig on the market right now, I would expect them to be at the forefront).

    But the way I see it, they won't be able to really succeed without substantial support from US.


  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member
    PS...the handcuff trick works great for attention if you call the local TV stations and tell 'em what time you are gonna do it...5pm is good, it's when people are getting off of work AND it's just in time for a live lead-in for the 5 o'clock news with and full coverage during the 6pm and 10pm newscasts...
  • Rule62Rule62 Posts: 3,237V2 Veteran
    It isn't the FDA's decision, whether or not to tax e-cigs. If e-cigs are taxed, which some components probably will be eventually, it will be as a part of some funding portion of a bill, passed by congress. Such as S1403, which was introduced in order to provide full funding for the  Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. S1403 was intended to amend Part B of the IDEA act by either taxing previously untaxed tobacco products, or increasing existing tobacco taxes. You can read the bill summary here:
  • SeawindsRoseSeawindsRose Posts: 194Member

    ***SIGH!*** Someone save us from these politicos and all this mumbo-jumbo. We need to identify some politicians who are sympathetic to our cause and support them, don't yall think?

    And if there aren't any, then we need to create some!

  • Dragon36Dragon36 Posts: 290Member

    @SeawindsRose ; I am with YOU!! Politicians get elected by votes, votes are given with public opinion...

    I Think that even if a small change we can do things to support what we believe, anything is better than just complaining ;)

  • jwinterjwinter Posts: 148Member
    Let me add my 2 cents to all of this. I'm 61 suffer from hypertension ( high Blood pressure), family has a history of heart disease. Went to the doctors for a check up , rarely go unless I'm sick BP was 180/120. Start on meds and doctor mentions I should quit smoking, girl friend (much younger) wanted me to quit too. Get a prescription for Chantix. I had tried the patch, gum and lozengers before. Off to the the drug store to get my meds. I'm retired military so most prescriptions are either free or $5 a piece. BP meds are free, pharmacist calls me over say the Chantix is not covered , that will be $200 for a month starter kit. I say never mind, I'll find something else. Three weeks later I'm purchasing my V2's. Go in for a follow up BP is 140/80 , doctor asks how the smoking is going. I say I didn't get the Chantix, decided to go with e-cigarettes instead , He says great. Next check up is in 4 months.
             I normally look at drug labels, and look u the side effects of any drug I'm prescribed. My oldest is an RN, and when I told her about this her reaction was over the top. She flat out stated that most of the smoking cessation drugs were not good for the human body, and the success rates as far lower then what the drug companies state. The only side effects she could she from e-cigarretes would be for people who has an adverse reaction to PG, but they also would have those reactions to any food or medication containing PG.

  • GooseGoose Posts: 1,765Member ✭✭
    I also heard that the chantix can really mess up your head.
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